華理克,快跪下!

係,這條標題是食《半澤直樹》大結局的,可是,我是認真地要他道歉的。我想,香港很多信徒還未了解發生了甚麼事。好,就等在下娓娓道來。事情,由一張圖開始。

599734_184412021744149_1545338062_n

就是這樣,華理克貼了一張紅色娘子軍的圖,說「馬鞍峰教會同工的典型工作態度」。此舉引來很大迴響,很多(白)人叫他把圖拿下,理由是他太太太不謹慎,開了一個不應該開的玩笑,觸動了華人的痛處。面對這樣的批評,他作出以下評語:

rick_response0我中譯一下:「人們總是看不出網上的曲筆。那其實是個笑話來的,如果你太認真,那就別追我的 post.你知道嗎?其實耶穌在登山寶訓也搞 gag 的,自以為義的人不明白,但祂的門徒就懂得笑了。」 wait a minute,這這樣的回應,有如高登朋友說「認真你就輸了」,一句就想把人打發掉,而且,還把自己搞的爛 gag 相比耶穌。OMFAG(oh my freaking American God),這是火上加油吧?果然,曾思瀚博士很快作出回應,義正辭嚴,給他一記痛擊。而華克理也竟然,在曾思瀚的 post 下回應:

rick_response

問:在這個回應中,華理克,有道歉嗎?沒有。不但沒有,他還暗示了曾思瀚把他唱衰,叫他下次 pm 他好了。之後,他又忽然提到自己當年去不了中國,但去了日本宣教的事。喂,大哥,不要拉開話題,我理得你幾時去過日本嗟,九唔搭八。圖,刪了,但討論繼續。以下是他最後的回應:

rick_response2em…也許是我要求高,佢其實都係無正面講清楚係咩事。這樣,不就是和大和田一樣嗎?1376176240-3285718208

這根本是敷衍過去,沒有誠意。反而,他擺出了這樣的姿態,我們要嚴正指責他的話,我們就會顯得小家子氣。美國佬,你真夠毒。還有,你看看樓下的回應,就知道,原來美國那邊,一樣有五毛(50 cents)。其中一個很令我火大的!

rick_fans看清楚了沒?這就是華克理的 fans,似曾相識吧?在林、高的 wall 很多這類的。

本來,一個老美的牧師,貼了張白痴圖,死不認錯,是不值得討論的。反正,這些事在香港都時有所聞。但問題是,他要帶領一班人來香港開教會嘛。他踏腳進來,我當然要盡地主之誼招呼他吧。我用三個理由,說明華克理的馬鞍峰教會不應該來港。

一:宣教,由文化相近的人來做就可以了。我們不需要你。

以前的宣教士,要隻身去宣教,親手搞佈道。但現在的宣教,講的是 empower 當地人去宣教,宣教士集中做培育、翻譯的工作。喂,更何況香港本身有千多間教會?香港的教會雖然千瘡百孔,很多不足,但用不著由外國教會出手吧?香港教會的牧者,你們沒有尊嚴的嗎?

二:不了解本土文化的文化侵略者,我不歡迎你。

馬鞍峰教會要來,絕大部份的信徒,都沒有意識要防範。第一個原因是,基督徒對來幫助宣教的,大抵都不會看為敵人;第二,香港人崇洋,而且不少教徒喝華克理的奶水大,所以,馬鞍峰教會來,一定很多中產教徒趨之若鶩。不過,我們從用紅衛兵來開玩笑這件事,知道華克理不了解華人的痛處,不識當地文化。我難保他正式在香港 launch 那一天,會貼一張 64 的坦克人,然後說「我們駛坦克車進城了~」。不懂得尊重當地文化的人,進來,就只會用他們的文化來侵略我們。

三:他們根本只是在搞連鎖店,別拿宣教做名堂吧。

香港沒有宣教需要,要搞,麻煩你去中東,那兒要你們老美去切腹。去過日本宣教的 Warren,你知甚麼叫切腹吧?中東那兒才是需要你的地方呀,香港不需要你。他們輸入教會,然後一大堆甚麼服務的,到頭來,還更會發展成「官、商、教」勾結。香港已經有一大堆名牧在搞官商教勾結了,你別來作示範好不好?你搞得太好了,我真的怕他們學得懂。到時,香港基督教就真係全盤玩 _ 完的了。

華理克,快跪下!

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43 thoughts on “華理克,快跪下!

  1. I am not a political correct person, but this does not mean I don’t care about others.

    For example, many people like Adolf Hitler. They have their rights. But if they do use Adolf Hitler as icon, gag or jokes in public, then I WILL express my concern.

    Yes, WW2 was long gone. But it hurts, and many alive still mourn or suffer from it. Using Adolf Hitler image to sell an idea, whether positive or negative is a no-no. There are many cases, like this one.

    http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-202_162-57593744/thai-university-apologizes-for-hitler-banner/

    It’s same here. For many Chinese, culture revolution is same or even worst, compare to WW2. How can Rick Warren said this is just a joke? He supposed to know Jesus better than average believer. He claimed that he wants to preach amongst Chinese, and he has not done his homework? And how come he eventually knew about this thru his Facebook feedback, and did not give an apology or at least review his posting. Is he really walk the walk, talk the talk? Or he is just another talk show guy?

  2. Why apology?? It was not an insensitive joke actually. You poor guys totally misunderstood the image he posted! The final destination of Rick Warren’s church is China not HK. Rick Warren is 紅衛兵,他是來幫中共實行統戰宗教階級大革命。

  3. The picture posted really was not a picture of the “Red Guard” from the Chinese Cultural Revolution but a picture from the Red Detachment of Women ballet (紅色娘子軍) or film. Shame on those who thought they are one and the same. They are not. The Red Detachment Women ballet was based on what happened in the 1930s, not the cultural revolution. So that means the people who were offended are against women fighting for injustice and their own rights. Most of the negative feedback actually came from the Chinese Christian Community. They are green with jealousy. And they call themselves Christians. If the local churches are doing such a bang up job in HK, then why all the fuss about Saddleback planting a church in HK?

      1. Yes. You are right. You don’t need a White guy, or any guys for that matter. The local churches and Christians desperately need God. They need to reexamine their own relationships with God. As I have not witnessed any Christ-like behavior in a lot of those who call themselves ‘Christians’. What I see is a whole lot of jealousy stems from their own inadequacy and insecurity. Only God can help.
        I don’t think that any church can or is meant to be ‘one size fits all’. That’s why there are many churches for many different kinds of people. Saddleback is just one of many churches.

      2. Christy, inadequacy and jealousy aside, if they (Christians, perhaps Christians in HK, to be specific) are truly an issue, why not bring it up and ask your brother and sister in Christ to change? Why bring in an alternative, no, a competitor fighting for sheep? that’s my question for saddleback HK.

        Also when you see there is problems around your fellow Christians, how do you discern when to speak out, and when to be quieter the usual, say, this guy who write blogs claiming Rick Warren should properly apologize, and Rick Warren himself, someone whom should *really* watch the way he act and says as many cast eyes on him as a role model? Are you just picking your battles again Christy?

        We ALL desperately need our God, indeed. Try to tell that to Rick Warren and he would say its better to send him a private email instead.

    1. 紅色娘子軍與文化大革命有密切的關係。
      1962年拍攝的電影《紅色娘子軍》獲得巨大成功。1964年改編成芭蕾舞劇,該劇在文化大革命1967至1976年間,由官方通過《人民日報》、新華社認定的一批在無產階級文化大革命中定稿,主要反映當時中國共產黨政治立場的舞台藝術作品被列為樣板戲之一,主要反映當時中國共產黨政治立場的舞台藝術作品。

      1. By the way Christy, could you please tell me where Pastor Stephen Lee (in Saddleback Hong Kong) got his theological degrees? Thank you very much.

      2. Just because the ballet was endorsed and promoted by the Communist party during Cultural Revolution does not mean that the Red Detachment women are Red Guards. My family suffered greatly because of the Red Guards but I’m not associating the Red Detachment women with them. Sorry if I’m not offended by the picture posted. I just see the negative reaction as an excuse to attack a famous pastor. If anyone is offended by the post, then don’t follow him on FB. If the Chinese Christians don’t like Saddleback, then don’t watch the sermons online and don’t attend Saddleback Hong Kong. No one is forcing anyone to do anything. People have the freedom to choose. The pastors who won’t stop criticizing just make themselves look desperate to get attention. They should be minding their own flock.

    2. By the way Christy, Could you please tell me where Pastor Stephen Lee (in Saddleback Hong Kong) got his theological degrees? Thank you very much.

      1. no Christy, if it wasn’t clear enough now, we are questioning about his qualifications. His scholastic expertise and understanding of the scripture is nowhere to be found. I am not nullifying his years serving under some famous christian-based mission, but that does not mean he is qualified to deliver the orthodox theology inasmuch as moving people with good sounding, good feeling message and soothing music, with thousands of like-minded faith seekers.

        Personally, I also deeply question the need for Saddleback in HongKong. What is the point of planting “campuses” around established* bases for Christian faith. Why not say somewhere in North Korea or Afghanistan if the call to mission is indeed so loud? I sincerely hope there would be actually non-believers getting into churches nowadays-but as far as I can tell, only a certain kind of people would attend Saddleback, and they certainly would have crosses as part of their accessories, if you know what I mean.

  4. Dear Christy, 這幅相中的不是紅衛兵。也不是三十年代紅色娘子軍(中國工農紅軍第二獨立師第三團女子特務連)軍人的舊照片。我也不是說紅色娘子軍=紅衛兵。
    事實上這照片是六十年代後《紅色娘子軍》芭蕾舞劇的劇照。妳看得清楚這是劇照嗎?
    《紅色娘子軍》芭蕾舞劇和電影是文化大革命八大樣板戲之一,也是最出名的。樣板戲是文化大革命的強力工具,例子太多,在此我只舉一例:江青的政治影響力很大程度上來源於樣板戲,她自始至終將樣板戲作為高壓統治的必要手段,打擊迫害持不同意見者。
    所以這照片(posted by Rick Warren)怎會與文化大革命無關呢?
    請問你知道誰是江青嗎?我肯定你不知道。就如很多東西方基督徒一樣,包括你和Rick Warren",都對中國近代歷史不太認識,連犯了什麼錯也不知道。這絕對不是三十年代紅色娘子軍的舊照片,這照片與三十年代的紅色娘子軍完全無關係!

    "If anyone is offended by the post, then don’t follow him on FB"???
    任何人(包括Rick Warren)想來港開設教會(不論是正或邪)都必定與我們香港的基督徒有關,我和Do Chan都是香港的基督徒,我們香港的基督徒絕對有權要知道來者是誰。也絕對有權查看他公開的FB。有些好心的基督徒發現在RW’s FB 中,有使中國人極反感的照片時,作出好言相勸。但結果是得來的是RW的不倫不類, 不知所為的道歉和RW’s fans 鋪天蓋地的無理攻擊。
    在此我要感恩說,這些好心的基督徒,你們作的是正確的事,願神大大祝福你們。
    只要RW繼續想來港發展,香港的基督徒就絕對有權要知道他是誰。但他令我們太失望了。

    Thank you very much for the link. My question was “where Pastor Stephen Lee got his theological degrees?”
    Why do I care? 因為我考慮加入Saddleback Hong Kong,所以我要清楚誰是這教會的牧者。在你提供的link中,我看到的只有‘The words Purpose Driven Life appeared right before his eyes’和‘with only a month of training’等等記述。我仍然找不到Pastor Stephen Lee在那神學院讀神學? 有沒有完成了什麼神學或聖經學位?
    一般香港的教會,牧師有神學或聖經學位只不過是最低和最基本的條件。

    請問是不是看過RW的Purpose Driven Life就可以成為牧師呢?

    1. I know the back story very well. I also know that it is a sample opera. The story is based in the 1930s even though it was adapted in the 1960s. My father is a retired Chinese History Professor in HK. What you are saying is that RW is guilty by association. I don’t wish to dwell in this and go back and forth with you on this issue. A feeling is a feeling. Some people feel offended, some don’t. People may say that RW is culturally insensitive (specific to Chinese), but to stretch that into questioning his beliefs and teachings, that’s too much.

      1. What YOU are saying by guilty by association is straw man. Its not we wish to “dwell in this back and forth” but rather you not willing to accept the fact that people would have a point in disagreeing with you no matter what kind of credentials your father might be in, which by the way, would be a very proper example of appeal to authority. So that my father is a mechanic from Malaysia moved to HK in his twenties. Does that make me more holy?

        Whether you believe the accusation RW is culturally insensitive is a stretch or not, is again, your opinion. This blog say it is so, and agreeing with some other blogs which have more detailed discussion. I suppose you can go there and express your views too if you so wished. But again, we are also just expressing our views, and meanwhile you first coming here by disagreeing and end up saying doesn’t wish to go back and forth begs the question of your intention of why would you be coming here and say whatever you wished to say in the first place.

      2. Richard, please don’t put words in my mouth. I was replying to German about him saying that I’m a western Christian, which I’m not. I don’t understand the logic of your example of having a Mechanic father will make you more holy. You completely lost me on that one. Again, what I said is that people are questioning Saddleback’s beliefs and teachings based on their perceived Cultural insensitivity on RW’s posting. I think that’s a stretch. Have any one of them ever been to Saddleback church or even understand what it is like? I don’t think so.

      3. Well, we may not attend Saddleback, but the sermon, books, seminar is out there. from the last sermon Rick Warren preached, I see him using he pulpit as canon.

        Do I still need to attend?

      4. Well since you don’t know where I am responding, let me put your words in your mouth then:

        Christy OCTOBER 3, 2013 @ 5:26 AM “I know the back story very well. I also know that it is a sample opera. The story is based in the 1930s even though it was adapted in the 1960s. My father is a retired Chinese History Professor in HK.”

        1.whether you know the story well or not, does not concerns me.

        2.Your father has nothing to do with your knowledge of Cultural Revolution and its media. (THAT’s appeal to authority.)

        3.My obviously made example is to tell you exactly how absurd it sounds. As if because of my father occupation, it made me holy. It might seem obvious as my father is not God the father but a mechanic. Yet it should seem just as obvious that no matter how many history degrees or his scholastic input has ANYTHING to do with how well you understood the matter in contention. Capishe?

        Christy OCTOBER 3, 2013 @ 5:26 AM “What you are saying is that RW is guilty by association.”

        4 guilty by association can be interpet as
        4a: Cultral revolution is bad
        4b: RW used CR poster (in whatever intention he claimed to be)
        4c: RW is bad

        Did we ever say that? the blog and other web commentators clearly stated it his attitude that causes the main problem. When there are fellow Christians (and others) objected to his use of image, He merely acknowledge it as a joke, and too bad that you don’t understand the nature of North American Humor, as crass as it can be, but I suppose I can apologize.

        That is NOT guilty by association. and you just claim we are. so you committed STARW MAN. Capishe? You really need to back your reason up with logic if you are going to discuss matters here. which is my third point.

        Christy OCTOBER 3, 2013 @ 5:26 AM ” I don’t wish to dwell in this and go back and forth with you on this issue. A feeling is a feeling. Some people feel offended, some don’t. People may say that RW is culturally insensitive (specific to Chinese), but to stretch that into questioning his beliefs and teachings, that’s too much.”

        5.you claim you don’t want to go back and forth
        6.feeling is a feeling
        7.some are offended and some are not.

        Yes. Precisely. so what is your point? if you seriously agree with what you say, then why the conversation?

        8.you claim that we committed slippery slope and say by using a Cultrual revolution image are question his beliefs and teachings. that is not true. we question his belittling attitude and the whole “evangelism colonization” system. which is move whatever works in saddleback to everywhere, as if the exact formula would work just as fine without adjustments—

        —and if there’s anyone that needed adjustment, surely its not the saddleback. Such is the attitude we abhor. and we do not welcome at all.

    2. Richard and German, regarding Pastor Stephen, he will not be preaching. All I can say is this: you don’t necessarily need a business degree in order to run a business, do you? If you don’t know that by now, Saddleback does not operate like any other church. And yes, knowledge about building a Purpose Driven Church is crucial to become a City Pastor at Saddleback. I would suggest reading ‘Purpose Driven Church’ to gain more understanding of how Saddleback church was founded and how it operates. They do not target Christians who already have home churches. They want to target non-believers and those who don’t normally attend church, they call them the unchurched. They have made it clear that the members of other churches who are helping Saddleback HK have to go back to their home church once they are up and running. They don’t want to steal sheep.
      If you are thinking about joining, I would suggest attending one of their Sunday services starting this Sunday at 2:30pm at Munsang College in Kowloon City. Then you can see for yourself whether Saddleback is for you or not.
      As for setting up a campus in HK, it is a strategic location for future entry into China and other Asian countries. They want to train and equip local Christians to spread the gospel. They are the only church in the world who has already reached every country via mission trips working with local churches. You can learn more about the PEACE plan here:
      http://www.thepeaceplan.com
      Hope the info helps.

      1. By the way, I don’t care about what to read to build purpose driven church. What I know is, to build Christ’s church, we read the bible.

      2. Do, then you should not care about whether Saddleback is in HK or not. If Saddleback is not built on the foundation of the Bible, then it will flop and fail. God will decide where He builds His church.

      3. Well, u r wrong. According to your logic, all cults would not grow, isn’t it? The fact is, growth isn’t necessary be the indication of God’s blessing.

        And, u may see churches a free market, but I see church as the whole body of Christ. I shout, because I care the name of God. I disagree, because I see something wrong there. For your information, I not only shout to Saddleback, I shout to many others too.

      4. Where in the Bible does it say that you need a theology degree to be a Pastor? The Pharisees were very knowledgeable and self-righteous, but what did Jesus think of them?

      5. Richard, I was responding to German about my background and also my knowledge on the Red Detachment women and Red Guards. RW told the truth when he said he meant for it as a joke. He also apologized. If you are demanding that he understands Chinese culture, then you should also try to understand where he is coming from. If his apology is not to your satisfaction, then pray and ask God to move your heart to forgive.
        I have said that Saddleback church is not for everyone. There is a reason why there are many churches with different styles but worship the same God. If you don’t like Saddleback’s style, then don’t attend. It is just one of many churches.

      6. Do, you clearly have not much of an idea of what Saddleback is all about. Reading a book or watching a sermon (with preconceived notion after the FB posting) does not mean you know. All I ask is to keep an open mind. I also didn’t think much about Saddleback until I step foot on the main campus for the first time. I have never seen a church filled with so much love. You have to experience it to believe it. Having grown up in Chinese churches, the entire worship experience at Saddleback is unlike anything I have ever seen. There is a big focus on discipleship and model after Jesus. They have structured classes from 101 to 401 to teach you how to be a Christian and how to use your gifts and abilities to serve God and help others. When RW was absent for 4 months to mourn, the church grew bigger. Keep in mind they were using different guest speakers from many churches during that time.

  5. @Christy
    OCTOBER 3, 2013 @ 11:35 AM
    “Richard, I was responding to German about my background and also my knowledge on the Red Detachment women and Red Guards. RW told the truth when he said he meant for it as a joke. He also apologized. If you are demanding that he understands Chinese culture, then you should also try to understand where he is coming from. If his apology is not to your satisfaction, then pray and ask God to move your heart to forgive.
    I have said that Saddleback church is not for everyone. There is a reason why there are many churches with different styles but worship the same God. If you don’t like Saddleback’s style, then don’t attend. It is just one of many churches.”

    1. You just ignored everything I typed. That’s not cool at all. Doesn’t matter you are talking to German or not, you simply made too many mistakes, then simply refused to acknowledge at them. And proceed to pound your views into this blog, regardless of whoever is speaking…

    …Cult much?

    “RW told the truth when he said he meant for it as a joke. He also apologized.”

    Now what exactly came to that conclusion is beyond my head, You may say as an opinion that he seemed sincere and honest, but I wouldn’t assume whatever that was uttered is truth or not. Not up to anyone to say anyway. However. He did NOT apologize. He is saying a note of conditional regret:

    RW-“IF* you are hurt, upset, offended, distressed by my insensitivity, then I am truly sorry.”

    It is precisely what it means. IF you don’t feel so good about my jokes, sorry! God bless you. But its really just a joke, and if you can’t take it, go somewhere else. Tell me, isn’t this his view, asking of your opinion Christy, as seemingly you can read RW’s mind anyway.

    Christy-“If you are demanding that he understands Chinese culture, then you should also try to understand where he is coming from. If his apology is not to your satisfaction, then pray and ask God to move your heart to forgive.”

    2.Stop. You committed tu-quoque. His insensitivity has nothing to do with mine. His fault of insensitivity would not be mitigated simply we proceed to understood more of North American culture. Also as I have written already, he did NOT apologize. he simply say, if you are hurt I am sorry. (On the other hand if you are not, then all that does not apply.)

    Also, pray and ask God to move my heart to forgive? Why not ask RW to pray to God and ask to move his heart so he knows what not to post on facebook, umm? And you are asking the hurt to move and forgive? isn’t that another tell-tale sign of colonialism here? Clearly the offended, hurt, distressed and upset should change, right? because its just a joke right? they should learn to take it all in! Chuckles.

    Christy-“I have said that Saddleback church is not for everyone. There is a reason why there are many churches with different styles but worship the same God. If you don’t like Saddleback’s style, then don’t attend. It is just one of many churches.”

    3. Again, drop your personal anecdotes. NOW.
    Your personal testimonies matters little when your opinion is definitely subjective. I wouldn’t talk about what RW did for me, or whether RW’s “purpose-driven” series made a difference in my life. Really, all that has very little to do with the point in contention.

    Which is RW’s belittle, condescending attitude.

    Something which by the way isn’t unique. It’s not just RW that would likely to commit cultural faux pas like these. If you go visit other blogs, plenty of other North Americans just have this carefree approach, The true question is how would you interpret which acts of insensitivity is naive nonchalance? Do you have any preferences?

    If indeed saddleback church is not for everyone, then why you keep telling us how amazing it is for you? really? Like its something we really should take notes of. And some how, whatever we feel or we think doesn’t really matter, because we should ask God to change our heart and to forgive, am I right?

  6. “Do, then you should not care about whether Saddleback is in HK or not.”

    Christy,你係咁話陳到唔應該理Saddleback嚟香港,叫佢剩係管好自己的羊。乜呢個係基督既教導嚟嘅咩?批評嘅人係想指正,正正就係唔忍心見到其他的羊誤入歧途、唔想見到其他信徒被絆倒,呢份關心係出於「愛」,所以不能夠話「呢個係Saddleback既事,你鍾意就嚟唔鍾意就唔好嚟」就坐視不理。但就被你地interpret做妒忌。你仲厚面皮係呢度賣Saddleback賣廣告,又話點充滿愛,我好質疑咁樣既質素會出到啲甚麼樣的「愛」來。

    “If Saddleback is not built on the foundation of the Bible, then it will flop and fail. God will decide where He builds His church.”

    如果真係以成敗去判斷一間教會是否build on the foundation of the Bible的話,耶穌就唔洗叫我地去 watch out for false prophets了。突然間又將個膊卸俾神話係佢決定,好一個典型的屈神氏。

    你都係算罷啦。既然你咁認為陳到應該”mind his own flock”,咁你都mind返你的Saddleback,無謂喺呢度扣人地「妒忌」帽子啦。If our reasoning is not to your satisfaction, then pray and ask God to move your hearts (as in everyone at your church) to reason and to truly build your church on the foundation of the Bible.

    1. I fail to see a shred of love or grace in this blog or any of the comments. These are personal attacks. I am beginning to wonder if I’m really talking to fellow Christians. You are just like the Pharisees, full of legalistic self-righteousness. If your own church is so great, then why would you even consider going to Saddleback? You keep saying that HK doesn’t need Saddleback, but I don’t see even one positive comment about what the churches in HK are doing for the people in HK to spread the Gospel to the non-believers. While attacking Saddleback, I also don’t see anyone of those ‘Christians’ say anything positive about their home church and the good they have been doing as evidence that Saddleback is not needed. I share my positive experience with Saddleback and I get crucified. If any of you have never ever said anything that others feel offended, then go ahead and judge. If what I see here is a good sample of Christians and Pastors in HK, then it is no wonder why the churches are not growing. Instead of arguing with other Christians, we all should focus on the mission God has given us, to be His witness and spread His Word. I myself is guilty of this as well, as I have wasted time going back and forth with all of you. I feel sad for both Christians and non-believers in HK. I will pray for all of you. This will be my last reply. God bless.

      1. I fail to see a shred of love or grace in this blog or any of the comments.
        咁係因為你看不到自己眼中的樑木。邊一度有人身攻擊呢?反而係你無端端話人係Pharisees。而且我根本沒有consider going to Saddleback。

        If any of you have never ever said anything that others feel offended, then go ahead and judge.
        又屈人了,邊度有人話自己無犯錯啊?依家唔係有無犯過錯的問題,係犯完錯有無正視、認錯同道歉的問題。而且耶穌究竟係叫我地唔好judge是否叫我地唔好用腦去辨別是非呢?

        If what I see here is a good sample of Christians and Pastors in HK, then it is no wonder why the churches are not growing.
        How arrogant! 所有香港的教會都是not growing嗎?就只有Saddleback 能 grow?

        Instead of arguing with other Christians, we all should focus on the mission God has given us, to be His witness and spread His Word.
        Argue不是為了爭吵,而是因為我們自己身為基督徒,一些很基本的原則和信念也未搞清,便急著到處 preach。係以正視聽。

        好一個典型令人討厭的基督徒,自己做一些討厭的行為被人討伐、不講道理,就說自己是被crucified了,臉皮還真厚。是Last reply就好了,好行夾唔送。

  7. Dear Christy, 首先謝謝妳的回覆,令我有更多機會指出Rick Warren的不是。
    我的爸爸小學合格,我小學也合格,我是合格的小學雞。
    我這小學雞怎樣肯定Rick Warren’s FB〝The typical attitude of Saddleback Staff as they start work each day〞相中的一定是紅衛兵?
    我隨隨便便都可舉出三個證明。(其實我還有很多的證明,不過留給下次慢慢用)

    證據1:
    請妳小心查看在RW的FB中對這次事件留下表示不滿的comments和被RW刪除的相片中留下不滿的comments,全部都是用〝Red Guards〞這詞語的,而RW從來沒有反對或更正,連一次也沒有。這就可以證明RW’s FB相片中他想說的就是紅衛兵。
    證據2:
    2009年Rick Warren鼓勵信徒效法紅衛兵的演講。有大量影片為証,為了節省妳的時間,妳可以google [Rick Warren Urges Christians to Be Dedicated as Hitler Youth] 。這些影片可以證明RW’s FB相片中他想說的就是紅衛兵。
    證據3:
    在1995年他自己寫的書「The Purpose Driven Church」中第357頁也同樣有鼓勵信徒效法紅衛兵的記載: ‘…a group of young Chinese students committed to memorizing and living the philosophy of a little red book, The Saying of Chairman Mao. The result was the Cultural Revolution that to this day keeps one billion people in the world’s largest country under the slavery of communism. That is the power of conviction! ’ 。這也可以證明RW’s FB相片中他想說的就是紅衛兵。

    事實上這照片是六十年代後《紅色娘子軍》芭蕾舞劇的劇照。不是三十年代紅色娘子軍(中國工農紅軍第二獨立師第三團女子特務連)的軍人的舊照片。《紅色娘子軍》芭蕾舞劇是文化大革命八大樣板戲之一(細節上面已講過在此不再重複)。請問文化大革命八大樣板戲之一所說的,怎會是一個簡單動人的故事呢?
    無論是《紅色娘子軍》劇照,抑或是紅衛兵照片必定與文化大革命有關!
    但RW的最大笑話(joke)就是他誤以為《紅色娘子軍》劇照就是紅衛兵!
    你上面曾經說過“Shame on those who thought they are one and the same” 。Rick Warren就是其中之一。

    Dear Christy, 我知妳和妳爸爸都很有學識,請問妳怎樣證明RW是知道相中是《紅色娘子軍》芭蕾舞劇而不是紅衛兵呢?博學者都能提供考證,妳的證據在那裹找的呢?在他的FB、在他的講道、在他的影片、在他的錄音、在他的Email、在他的書或是他講給你知的?
    如果RW真正是想講〝紅色娘子軍芭蕾舞劇是馬鞍峰教會同工的典型工作態度〞,那麼他之後話這是個笑話(joke)又是什麼意思呢?是不是『馬鞍峰教會同工的工作似跳芭蕾舞原地轉圈不向前』?如果不是,請解釋給我這個小學雞聽〝Red Detachment of Women ballet is the typical attitude of Saddleback Staff as they start work each day〞好笑的地方在那裡?有什麼好笑?

    Christy姊妹,我是基督徒,我對妳,妳的教會和Pastor Stephen Lee全無惡意。我都很明白妳想保護妳的教主Rick Warren。但妳護教已經失敗,妳也不用為他認錯。Rick Warren 要公開對中國人認錯並要制止他的fans 出來為他胡說八道。我三歲的兒子也懂得做錯就要認,Rick Warren你做錯唔認,多多小動作,連我這個小學雞也看不起你!
    By the way, 他的書我十幾年前己經看過,而且燒了,不想害其他人。我是香港的基督徒,不拜偶像,只愛看聖經。

      1. Dear Christy,
        我和我的弟兄共12人(常被人稱為12門徒)和9個姊妹當日一定會準時出席參加你們的崇拜,一睹Rick Warren的風采。
        半小時前我們在深水埗一間買舊軍服舖,買了不同的軍服,有些人買紅衛兵服裝,都有八九成似。我扮的是希特拉青年軍都有七成似,有些像加大碼童子軍,很好笑的,我想Rick Warren見到我們一定很歡喜。不過納粹黨的袖戴就無得買要自己整。我好易認的,我叫German,五尺十一吋半高,金頭髮(染的) ,講流利純正港式英語。
        到時歡迎隨便拍片放上YouTube。希望Rick Warren到時不要忙記笑。

  8. Christy, 我都吹夠水喇,你話唔想再傾,大家咁話,係咁先。

    利申;不嬲都冇講過話我會去saddleback,而且想去都唔會有機會,因為我喺多倫多都住咗成廿年嘞,亦冇興趣返港一敘。

    另,我打英文只不過係為求方便,而家用中文同你勸一句。當RW話耶穌當時都有用笑話之類去諷刺文士法利賽人為自己嘅行為去開解,我就知道我已經聽夠。因為真係冇乜牧者會將自己過失和耶穌事蹟相提並論。

    須知自大都要有個譜㗎。其實牧者失言真係好濕碎,又其是Rick Warren 之流。講錯真係無礙,曉認,再改就得。不過你自己好好睇下RW夠竟喺北美有乜朵:

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/26/rick-warren-offensive-photo-facebook_n_3997619.html?utm_hp_ref=christianity

  9. Dear Christy,
    我和我的弟兄共12人(常被人稱為12門徒)和9個姊妹當日一定會準時出席參加你們的崇拜,一睹Rick Warren的風采。
    半小時前我們在深水埗一間買舊軍服舖,買了不同的軍服,有些人買紅衛兵服裝,都有八九成似。我扮的是希特拉青年軍都有七成似,有些像加大碼童子軍,很好笑的,我想Rick Warren見到我們一定很歡喜。不過納粹黨的袖戴就無得買要自己整。我好易認的,我叫German,五尺十一吋半高,金頭髮(染的) ,講流利純正港式英語。
    到時歡迎隨便拍片放上YouTube。希望Rick Warren到時不要忙記笑。

  10. Hi, German. Saddleback HK welcomes everyone. Just to let you know that Pastor Rick won’t be there. There will be live music and a video sermon – a recording of Rick Warren’s preaching. There will also be Saddleback Kids program for children. Pastor Stephen will speak to welcome everyone and make announcements. He won’t preach, though. Don’t be disappointed that you won’t get to meet Pastor Rick in person.
    God loves everyone – believers or non-believers; good or bad persons; young or old people – that’s also Saddleback Church’s motto.
    God loves you and your brothers, too. Hope you have a blessed day! Thank you for planning to attend the launch this Sunday!

  11. Dear Viola,
    OMG! 太可惜了。我用了四百幾元買的服飾這星期日用不著。都是我們其中一個姊妹不好,收錯料話RW會出席。不過我們仍然會派一個弟兄出席,以防Rick Warren突然出現可通知我們。
    我們12男9女會常作準備,只要Rick Warren一出現在香港。我們20多個WR’s fans一定會緊緊跟隨支持他。我們一早已收集了超過四百個世界各地的電視、電台、報章、雜誌、網站、FB、YouTube Channels等等。只要他一出現,我們這班基督精兵(紅衛兵和納粹青年軍)一定和他有很好的交流並即時把相片,文字和短片全球發放。他一定會開心歡笑到碌地。
    他教曉我們中國人什麼是North American Humour,等我們也示範給他看什麼是中國人的幽默。
    我們像期待基督再來一樣『Rick Warren快來,我願你來,啊門!』

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